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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffMatthew Vernon Date: Nov 30, 2005 3:27am
Forum: etree Subject: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings

I wanted to make a few comments about the recent changes to how the Grateful Dead recordings are hosted on the Internet Archive to clarify some misconceptions I have seen posted. These comments reflect only my view as a participant and instigator is implementing the Grateful Dead collection on the Archive.

Around 2000, a group of people including myself came together to collect and convert a variety of Grateful Dead recordings into “lossless compressed” format (aka shn) for ftp exchange over the internet. At that time, there were few servers that hosted live music performances. A key event was the creation of the “db.etree.org” database and web site by Tom Anderson. This established a mechanism for tracking different sources using md5 signatures. Tom’s contributions were fundamental.

Between 2000 and 2003, our initial effort of digitizing music of the Grateful Dead expanded into collecting the complete “circulating” opus, defined by the shns-in-circ pages for the Grateful Dead at db.etree.org, compatible with the band’s trading policy, onto a single server. We estimated that it would require about 3 Terabytes of disk space and take about 1 year to complete. The server was tol.etree.org and was located in Sweden. Many people contributed their time and resources to this project. Hard disk drives were purchased and loaded with shows and mailed to Sweden. Individual source ftp uploads were coordinated concurrently. We tried to standardize the way the directories were named so that one could find the recordings one desired. As much as possible we tried to include Grateful Dead internet trading groups by having public logins to tol.etree.org. These groups included “Dead Net Central”, BUDD, deadlists, Grateful Dead forums on “The Well”, etree.org and others. Efforts to collect rare and famous audience recordings and transfer them to the digital domain also occurred during this time interval.

The recordings on the Internet Archive were not supplied by the Grateful Dead to the Archive. The soundboard and audience recordings on the Archive are those that were being traded, in effect, by the aggregate of collectors that we are aware of. Each source has its own story, some colorful, some pure fiction (but always entertaining). The impact of the music is reflected in the fact that the various sources have been kept by individual people for so many years that present day audio technology can make it widely available.

Around fall 2003, I contacted Brewster Kahle, the vision behind the Internet Archive, if the Internet Archive would be interested in backing up the contents on tol.etree.org. Enough time and money had been expended by so many people that we thought it best to try to implement a contingency plan in the event tol experienced a catastrophic hardware failure or was no longer available. The Internet Archive’s vision of “building a digital library of Internet sites and other cultural artifacts in digital form … [to] provide free access to researchers, historians, scholars, and the general public” was an ideal match considering the pivotal role of the Grateful Dead in live concert recordings. Brewster and I met and he agreed to archive tol’s gd collection and to host it on the Internet Archive as an “etree server”, consistent with our understanding of the band’s trading policies regarding live recordings. I was personally interested in finding a permanent steward for the audience recordings knowing that by and large the soundboards are professionally cared for in the Grateful Dead’s Vault.

Around spring 2004 public access to the Archive’s gd collection began as we rolled out the collection in years. The infrastructure of the Internet Archive enabled the recordings to be freely accessed in a variety of formats (shn/flac, streaming, mp3/ogg). Thanks should go to Jon Aizen and Parker Thompson of the Internet Archive (and others I am not aware of) who coded and help fix all of the nagging issues to get the sources on line with correct metadata.

From 2004 to the present one can read threads in different gd forums on this site and others that wondered if having everything in one place for anyone to access was the right thing to do. I haven’t collected every opinion that was articulated but one can safely assume that any conceivable opinion has been voiced by someone, somewhere.

What those involved in the effort (and there have been several hundred) have strived to do was implement our idea of a single online collection with an attention to quality and completeness and at all times consistent with our understanding of the band’s trading policy. Fans of the Grateful Dead are known for their obsessive compulsive enthusiasm to sharing the music of the Grateful Dead and we are guilty of this charge.

What you see on the archive is “Phase 1” of the GDIAP (Grateful Dead Internet Archive Project). Given the uniqueness of the Grateful Dead’s role in the history of live music performances, we had planned to develop software that would enable researchers to explore the audio collection in new ways to follow how music evolved. We wanted to create supplementary databases (though the help of the public) that would transcribe the between song banter so it could be searched with links to the audio source material, who played on every song, song timings, links to themed jam development and others. We contemplated creating software that would use set list statistics based on frequency and song order to create hypothetical setlists and then “stream” them to you as an amusing diversion to “shows that could have been”. Maybe you want to hear every “Yellow Dog” story back to back? Developing the software to enable you to do that transparently was on our “to do “list. We don’t claim to know all future applications of the GD audio collection on the Archive. Given the inventiveness of the GD fan base throughout the last 40 years, clever, useful or fun concepts are bound to arise we can’t envision at this time.

Several months ago, Brewster, Parker and I met with representatives of Grateful Dead Productions (GDP) and presented our visions of where the GDIAP project was going. These meetings were very productive. I felt very much that GDP understood the materials we had presented to them. The Grateful Dead’s music has an infectious enthusiasm that we all share including the hardworking and dedicated people at GDP. I also learned something about their roles and functions, some of the problems they face and the constraints they operate under.

The position of the Internet Archive has always been to support the bands in hosting their music on the Archive.

I think it is very important for me to personally say that there has always been an unspoken generosity about sharing the music from the band members, the support personnel and the fans. These were the only meetings that I ever had with the any one officially connected with the band and I felt that spirit was there.

The people who have contributed to the GDIAP project want the Internet Archive to exist “forever” so things like the audio recordings of the Grateful Dead are around long after we have gone our separate ways.

Matt Vernon

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Poster: yippierb Date: Dec 2, 2005 8:02am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings

Thanks Matt,
This is interesting and enlightening. LMA must continue whatever the Band decides. To you and everyone who puts their heart and soul into this..My deepest gratitude.

Thanks,

Rich

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Poster: dire--wolf Date: Nov 30, 2005 4:33am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings

"Several months ago, Brewster, Parker and I met with representatives of Grateful Dead Productions (GDP) and presented our visions of where the GDIAP project was going. These meetings were very productive. I felt very much that GDP understood the materials we had presented to them. The Grateful Dead’s music has an infectious enthusiasm that we all share including the hardworking and dedicated people at GDP. I also learned something about their roles and functions, some of the problems they face and the constraints they operate under"

So what problems were they faced with? What did you learn. I have come to terms with the verdict but from a pure intrest in the band and their activities, what is the real answer, why did this happen?

Respectufly, dire--wolf

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Poster: hopperdave Date: Feb 11, 2006 2:46am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings

I haven't visited this site in quite some time... and today
I started poking around looking for something to download
and mush to my horror I CAN'T download ANYTHING! I guess I was lucky to have downloaded some great stuff a few months
ago.... it's sad to see such a great resource for our music
(and the memories it revives) to be squashed.... :(
If anyone knows of another site similar to how this site used to be, email me at hopperdave2000 at yahoo dot com....
THANX!!!

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Feb 11, 2006 4:28am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD FAQ

BTW I see this is one of the few old GD issue threads that doesn't have a FAQ pointer, so FYI for any other readers:
http://www.archive.org/about/faqs.php#215

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Poster: Acid Queen Date: Feb 23, 2006 4:51am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings

Actually you can still download shows; but you can only download 'audience' shows not 'soundboards' anymore. It's a little more difficult than it was 6 months or more ago; you have to have know how to use an FTP(file transfer protecol) client.
For every show that's still available to download (now it's only audience as I said before)there is a 'link' on the frame of each show, which gives you all the info you need to connect to the server that show is on. All you have to do is 'plug=in' all the info that's give at this 'link'and 'hit connect'. Now the shows aren't logged on the server by name or venue, so make sure you remember the 'date' of the show you want to download, so you can scroll through the server list and find it. Once you do 'highlight' it, than open up the 'local directory'(that's on your hard drive) where you want it saved to and 'click' the arrow pointing toward your directory. This is a much faster process than the 'old' downloads from a few months back, which took 'forever' for some shows. These are all 'shn' files; really compressed,so they take very little time to download completely.
After you have the show downloaded you now have to de-compress them if you want to burn a CD;but if you just want to listen on your computer player, Winamp has a 'shn' plug-in available.
I hope this helps you; good luck and have FUN!
AIKO-AIKO!

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Poster: dylanpc Date: Jan 5, 2006 11:15am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings

I think that this is horrible. People who posted the straight recordings from the soundboards of Dead shows had recording lisences. The Grateful Dead allowed them to record their music if they had a lisence. This means that all the dead shows on hear that are recordied from the soundboards are not illegal, the Dead allowed them to record their shows.

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Poster: bcdeadahead Date: Jan 9, 2006 8:29pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings

I agree,why did they sell taper tickets to every show?The problem is the dead made millions for years and with jerry gone,and every one getting older,they don't make the money they use to.They don't play near the number of shows they use to and now they rely on dicks picks to make money.I wonder what papa bear would say? It use to be more about the MUSIC than the MONEY!

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Jan 9, 2006 10:04pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: movin' on

Let's not kick up the same old discussion, it's been hashed to death here in many past threads and thousands of posts. Thanks- mod.

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Poster: MushroomEagle Date: Jan 12, 2006 1:24pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: movin' on

Is there any site now besides bt.etree.org that allows JGB downloads?

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffTyler Date: Nov 30, 2005 4:38am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings

Thank you for the history Matt.. Even I didn't know the scoop of how all this came to be. thank you for the post.

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Poster: archivemod Date: Feb 28, 2014 11:05pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings

MOD converter can convert any .mod format, http://www.freemodconverter.com

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Poster: xDeadRoadie Date: Jan 23, 2006 8:32am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings

I toured with the Dead in late 1977, and early 1978. (We did catering for the band) Betty Cantor used to let me plug in my Sony TC153SD Cassette Recorder into the remote recording studio backstage. I would say there were about 3 others who plugged into that reel to reel studio during that tour. I'm sorry to say that most of my cassettes were stolen. I was so happy to see all of the shows I worked with the DEAD, available on your site for downloading. Now I'm completely bummed, because I see now they are only for streaming. What made the change in policy, the band? Where can I get copies to download?
Don Gaess, Upper Saddle River, NJ, - CATERING CREW - KITCHEN CY KOCIS, official hospitality crew for the DEAD 1975-78. (affiliated with MONARCH ENTERTAINMENT tour support, John Scher president) *****High five to Steve Parrish, Cy sends you a high five! We miss those days :-)

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Poster: ripcurldead Date: Jan 24, 2006 8:17am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings

Did you ever get an answer to this???

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Jan 23, 2006 9:04am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD FAQ

References in this post:
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=54261

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Poster: gruUbic Date: Apr 5, 2006 8:06am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings

Rock on, Matthew Vernon, thanks for the intel.
Good luck to y'all @ etree, archive, et al and GDP

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Poster: feetheweasel Date: May 1, 2006 10:20am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings

I think someone else said it best when they said the Dead arent the same band after Jerry. Who ever thought they would be? If Jerry hadnt felt obligated to the Dead Family and Community as much as he did, they would have probably broken up back in the early eighties. It is also true they aren't making the money they used to and now its time to squeeze the turnip, if you know what I mean. Nothing wrong w/ that at all.
Just seems wierd that if a band says that people can come and freely record their live shows and some are even allowed to plug into the board, then they own that music as long as they dont try to make money off of it. The Dead took it even a step farther by selling tickets exclusively for tapers. Seems that I could call Betty Cantor and get a couple of juicy boards via her collection and theres nothing illegal about it. Why are digital files any different? Seems a little extreme to now say that it is illegal. Or maybe just greedy. Doesnt really matter b/c I realized that w/o Jerry and Billy, the Dead suck.

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Poster: fremontbob Date: Jul 14, 2006 12:13pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings

So here we have it. The magic of Phil and Friends and Ratdog finally discovered that independent solo jobs just don't make $$$ like the good ol' GD. Sure, they are talented, but the GD was a machine, fueling everyone around it. Keeping families alive and hippies intact. So w/o Jerry, the band simply isn't the same. Members of the GD never proclaimed it would be. But the issue of pulling the boards is a low blow. Especially to a site that promotes education and learning such as this. Isn't greed one of the 7 deadly sins? Take note, every book I have read on the Dead, sans Phils new unlightening piece of crap, clearly states that the Dead and particularly Jerry didn't care about the tapers or 'sbd boots' because once the music played, it was gone. Those lucky enough to capture it can simply relive those memories of the show and most importantly, share it. 11 Years after his untimely death, the music hasn't stopped, it has just changed completely. It would be easy to blame someone like Phil, Deborah Koons, or the like, but the reality is, the Dead claiming they know the fans, and understand them, have begun to realize they know little if anything about us. Exception, we are perpetuating the freeloader hippie ideals by taking what simply is not ours. Nice hypocrisy. I am inclined many close to the Dead ike MG would relate. She is a smart and tolerant woman. The other message that must be addressed concerns those who shlepped their gear into the concerts, dealt with Ramrod and other henchmen, and angels of course, should revel in the fact that their AUD recordings are the backbone of the live music in the first place. SBD's are a completely different perspective than the AUD music. The camraderie amongst deadheads, the conversations captured, really enhances the experience. For those who have mae it this far in my subtle diatribe, a few parting shots. GDP makes money, lots of it. Since the cut the payroll down to just a few, they will continue to make money. A pile as High as Mt. Tam is unlikely, but they are not in the red. Being in the red is a result of not making many good and difficult business decisions. Family first is a noble concept but who really is the family and is music really a business? Yes, Round Records should've been the first red flag. Keeping the cog running took incredible amounts of cash, hiring Lenny Hart was nice but who had the finger on the pulse? Phil admits the burden of carrying the 'gd family for decades', their lives depended on it. Get real, spend 1/2 of what you make. At least you are not pumping gas. I can just hear it, 'man, that Wall of Sound is a bitch to move...' At least the caterer post above reflects some sincerity and humanity. Next, the GD fan base is shrinking rapidly, and bad PR isn't helping. Let's put some pressure on GDP, and remind them that w/o the fans anyway, they still have to look themselves in the mirror. Karma is a weird thing, Phil should know this. The other ones too. Get with the program team, your losing players, not ground. Which is more important to you? Finally, thanks for all of the incredible work at the IA, truely a masterpiece. Hopefully the GD black cloud will pass over to Mill Valley and shed some renewal and reflections of greed and conciousness.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Jul 14, 2006 1:02pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: pointer to newer Grateful Dead forum

Since this old thread was started, a new, more focused forum at the site has been created for GD discussion. See:
http://www.archive.org/details/GratefulDead#forum

Enjoy!

(BTW, I have removed your several other accidental duplicate posts.)

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2006-07-14 20:02:00

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Poster: chasingwilma Date: Jan 22, 2012 7:13am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: pointer to newer Grateful Dead forum

question

are we going to be able to upload dead any time soon

i need somewhere to back up my masters before anyhting happens to them

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Poster: glenn Date: Sep 3, 2012 6:19pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: pointer to newer Grateful Dead forum

as always, the only way to KEEP the music is to SHARE it, unless you are a bazillionaire and can afford to keep redundant copies of everything, your redundant copies are the trees that grow from the seeds you share...

http://www.archive.org/details/GratefulDead#forum

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Poster: chasingwilma Date: Sep 4, 2012 6:11am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: pointer to newer Grateful Dead forum

i share everything but what ddoes that have to do about opening up the upload process... speak not of which you do not know

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Poster: glenn Date: Sep 6, 2012 12:30am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: pointer to newer Grateful Dead forum

the pointer was to point out that you are resurrecting a stale thread,and the discussion is "over there" not "here"

and as I understand it, there will not be an 'opening up' of the upload process because of the GDIAP group. "if you cannot answer the question: "Is this the best source available" for a given show, I'm certain the archive will not be available for upload.

the archive is not for the purpose of you backing up your masters, your backup is and always has been the files you have shared.

and in any case, you will get better answers from people in whose knowledge you may have more faith --- over HERE:

http://www.archive.org/details/GratefulDead#forum

and NOT in this thread which died 6 years ago.

I mean no discourtesy, I'm answering your question so it doesn't just lay there. So I really recommend, if my info isn't trustworthy to you, or even if it is, that you ask again http://www.archive.org/details/GratefulDead#forum <--there

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Poster: chasingwilma Date: Sep 6, 2012 4:49am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: pointer to newer Grateful Dead forum

you are incorrect the archives is for archiving the recordings... no matter how much i have shared it would be very time consuming to track them down as opposed to simply going to the archives and downloading what got lost...... i figured out the issue you do a tree on etree and the group puts up the masters.... no worries i have started the process kin the spring and continue to do so... i do appreciate the fact that you took time to answer me though

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Poster: glenn Date: Sep 6, 2012 7:05pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: pointer to newer Grateful Dead forum

Yes the archive is for archiving the recordings. It's just not, in the case of the Grateful Dead, open for uploading everything. If your masters have a known lineage etc, yes, etree.org is the place to go, regardless of if they are picked up by the LMA archive (this) because once it's seeded to etree, it is being duplicated by 'everyone' and will then withstand the bitrot, tape failures etc...

I've not been active on this forum for about 6-7 years, but I had email notifications 'on' for this thread, because I was interested in the outcome of the original discussion whatever that had been, way back then.

When you asked your question, I got pinged, and I noticed that there was just the one ping, giving me the impression that whatever it was, nobody had responded. I would have felt ignored if it had been me, so of course I gave you the best answer I had, go over to the new forum where everyone is and ask there...

Thanks for getting back to me. I appreciate it. Sorry about the antagonistic vibe we had going there for a sec.

for anyone else that stumbles on this thread... go over to the new forum, all the cool kids are doing it:

http://www.archive.org/details/GratefulDead#forum

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Sep 6, 2012 7:34pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: pointer to newer Grateful Dead forum

I'm just blown away that you have been following a thread for 6-7 years.

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Poster: glenn Date: Sep 6, 2012 7:47pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: pointer to newer Grateful Dead forum

Me too. It's not been active, so I never noticed.
drglenn@dr.com if you want to email me directly.

http://archive.org/details/Colonel_Bogey_March_variations

is a link to all of the music I've made... I have been pretty busy since then.

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Poster: aikox2 Date: Nov 30, 2005 4:13am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings

So what happened to tol? I was lucky enough to download shows from tol for a short time. If memory serves me, I was able to finally find and download and get to hear a number of The Other Ones shows that I personally love. I don't know why there seems to be a dearth of that incarnation of the band online, but that is another story.
If I am not mistaken, there was also a wealth of JGB on tol. It was also very fast : )

One day, I could no longer logon to tol : (

What happened to tol and all that archived music?

Aiko

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Poster: chun Date: Dec 20, 2005 10:53am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings

tol ran into issues about where it was hosted (sweeden) and torbjorn had to take it offline - sadly.

I had 6 months earlier just completed a small fund raising project for it thru the CDEAD community - and we sent over 3/4 TB of new disk space for JGB expansion.

This post was modified by chun on 2005-12-20 18:53:45

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Poster: Chris Ladner Date: Dec 1, 2005 7:55am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings

tol was taken down after some jerk anonymously emailed torbjorn (the tol siteop) pretending to be GDP and scared the university administrators into having the server taken down.

no mention was made of "the music never stopped project", but this is the group of guys who committed themselves to extracting/listening and encoding and uploading shows to tol which ultimately led to the "tol year projects" -> archive.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Dec 2, 2005 1:26am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Brief History of the TMNSProject

Ah, another of our "focused and meticulous" Deadhead librarian colleagues stops by, thanks Chris!

(Knock self on head) I can't believe none of us have brought up the TMNSP acronym yet. Deep credit is due for their amazing teamwork. :)

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Poster: Fishead Date: Nov 30, 2005 4:48am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings

thanks for the history info.

hopefully you and gdp can have another meeting or is that not gonna happen?
appreciate all the time and effort you put into this project.

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Poster: Shiva Ho Date: Jan 18, 2006 11:21am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings

OK thanks for this info....

Where does one contribute shows that still have yet to be included in the Archive?

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Poster: BensDad Date: Nov 30, 2005 9:50am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings

>>>Brewster and I met and he agreed to archive tol�s gd collection and to host it on the Internet Archive as an �etree server�, consistent with our understanding of the band�s trading policies regarding live recordings. I was personally interested in finding a permanent steward for the audience recordings knowing that by and large the soundboards are professionally cared for in the Grateful Dead�s Vault.<<<

This is the question I have been trying to get answered from the git go:

So basically you did not have the bands permission to upload their music and you used the mp3 policy as a backbone correct? Another question: How did the lossless format and the SBDS fit in under the policy requirements in the first place? SHN is not mp3 and even though the SBD sources did not come from the vault they were still SBDS (insert patch argument here), I am not trying to be a jerk here I am just trying to understand. I am happy as h**l to see that we are getting the AUDS back for download. My argument from the beginning is that those were technically ours and they were going back on their word....Thank you for clarifying some things for us Matt. You answered a lot of questions that I had...LONG LIVE THE GRATFEUL DEAD AND LMA!

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 30, 2005 10:18am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings

I have been trying ref is
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=49344

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-30 18:18:32

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Poster: frank_the_third Date: Nov 30, 2005 11:14am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings

no matter what happens, THANKS !! for all the effort that everyone put into this

a lot of my GD collection comes from the archive
but like times before, you can always email me for a trade :)

~ the music never stopped ~

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffBrad Leblanc Date: Nov 30, 2005 11:31am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings

How did the lossless format and the SBDS fit in under the policy requirements in the first place?

I have no idea whether permission was given directly or not, but I do believe SHN files can be considered "digital audio files" so their policy includes them quite clearly.

http://www.dead.net/hotline_info/NEW_DOCUMENTS/mp3.html

The Grateful Dead and our managing organizations have long encouraged the purely noncommercial exchange of music taped at our concerts and those of our individual members. That a new medium of distribution has arisen - digital audio files being traded over the Internet - does not change our policy in this regard.

• No commercial gain may be sought by websites offering digital files of our music, whether through advertising, exploiting databases compiled from their traffic, or any other means.

(check!)

• All participants in such digital exchange acknowledge and respect the copyrights of the performers, writers and publishers of the music.

(check!)


• This notice should be clearly posted on all sites engaged in this activity.

(check!)

• We reserve the ability to withdraw our sanction of noncommercial digital music should circumstances arise that compromise our ability to protect and steward the integrity of our work.

(case and point, Nov 23 - check!)

So basically you did not have the bands permission

To repeat, I have no idea if archive.org did or not, but their policy pretty clearly says it's ok from my non-legal point of view...

This post was modified by Brad Leblanc on 2005-11-30 19:31:42

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Poster: BensDad Date: Nov 30, 2005 11:44am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings

Thank You. I think I get it now...I guess the whole "STATEMENT TO MP3 SITE OPERATORS" had me confused...I was always curious as to how the SHN's fell into the mp3 category. I guess until the other day the words "digital files" covered everything...Thanks for taking the time to clarify and thank you for all of your hard work..GD and otherwise.


What's up with the 1/2 stuff that was edited into my post (not by me) above after I posted it? It doesn't say 1/2 anything in the original post. I finally feel I am on the same page and somebody's gotta go and throw that in there...What's up with the 1/2's? :)


This post was modified by BensDad on 2005-11-30 19:44:37

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffBrad Leblanc Date: Nov 30, 2005 8:06pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings

I finally feel I am on the same page and somebody's gotta go and throw that in there...What's up with the 1/2's?

No modified by anyone - it was in your original post. If it were modified it would say something like this:

This post was modified by Brad Leblanc on 2005-12-01 04:05:26

It looks like they have to do with the quotes you are using. Weird keyboard? Try posting another message with quotes and see what happens.

This post was modified by Brad Leblanc on 2005-12-01 04:06:16

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Poster: BensDad Date: Dec 1, 2005 5:04am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings

"It looks like they have to do with the quotes you are using. Weird keyboard? Try posting another message with quotes and see what happens."

ok, lets see...

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Poster: waller Date: Nov 30, 2005 9:44am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings

Matt,

thanks for clearing that up? but if the sd's are patches dont we the fans have the music or the archive? I hope this all works out Its been a crazy week. and thanks for all your hard work

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Poster: rmcd111 Date: Nov 30, 2005 10:14am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Brief History of the GDIAP Project to Hopefully Clarify Some Misunderstandings

First of all I want to thank you and whomever else participated in the process of creating all of this great great music....

[ad-hominem-ish bits plus replies snipped to cool it down. Let's keep the beautiful parent post unsullied, thanks- mod]

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-30 18:14:36